Before you make a purchase from Abe’s of Maine of you need to look past their 3.5 Google rating and glowing reviews to see the full picture. We stumbled upon Abe’s of Maine when we were collecting data another business with suspicious reviews. We added them to the New Jersey business state page and moved on. We decided to take a closer look and found that Abe’s of Maine was covered in an NBC News story How to avoid online HDTV shopping scams This article was from April 29th, 2012, a full 6 years to the date. Reporter Gary Merson referred to Abe’s of Maine “as the poster child bad online dealers”. This is review fraud so we will bypass their warranty claims address by Gary and focus on the reviews instead.
Abe’s of Maine Google Reviews
Abe’s of Maine currently has 650 Google reviews. Our question is how many of those reviews should not be trusted? The fact that Abe’s of Maines is an online seller with a physical location made it a little harder to spot fake reviews, however, we kept digging and found some of the typical signs of fake reviews.
Aaron Thomas, Adrian Summersett, and Bridget bai all reviewed Nationwide Debt Reduction Services 1213 Culbreth Dr, Wilmington, NC 28405 and Abe’s of Maine in the past month. We also uncovered shared reviews for Amoderm Cosmetic and Wellness Medical Center 18 Endeavor suite 200, Irvine, CA 92618 from both Bridget bai and Adrian Summersett. The profile for Gamers United reviewed Nationwide Debt Reduction Services and 3 rehab listings in Northern California. Open Wings is an apartment complex, Second Chance is hiding their address and Final Steps in a residential address. Krebs on Security published an article on the spam that is happening in the Rehab Industry where people are being paid to create fake listings as a way to generate call leads. The non-existent listings are also being left with fake 5-star reviews too.
Abe’s of Maine BBB listings
Westpark Electronics, LLC DBA Abe’s of Maine has an F rating with the BBB. The BBB notes that 24 out of the 66 complaints were closed in the past year. The BBB only keeps complaints for 3 years and then they expire. Abe’s of Maine is averaging 2 closed complaints a month. 37 complaints were marked as either the complainant rejected to the solution or never reached back to the BBB and 8 complaints were ignored by Abe’s of Maine.
Abe’s of Maine Yelp Reviews
Abe’s has two Yelp listings. The first one for their 5 Fernwood Ave Edison, NJ 08837 marked closed. It has a 2-star rating with 89 reviews. Yelp offered a link to the live listing and it also has a 2-star rating but has 309 reviews. Since 2014 Abe’s of Maine has received 220 1 star reviews that Yelp has not filtered out. It is worth noting that one of the forty-three positive reviews from Jeff D. purchase and identical tv, a Samsung 65 inch TV from Abe’s of Maine in 2017 and a 65-inch curved UHD Samsung TV in 2014 from East Coast TVs 601 W Linden Ave Linden, NJ 07036. There is a filtered out 1-star review from Brad S. who called out Abe’s of Maine, East Coast TV’s and Joe’s AV as “These are all companies that use a bait and switch practice”. Both Abe’s of Maine and East Coast TV’s use private registration so that you can not see who owns either website. East Coast TV’s has a 2-star rating with 191 reviews. 130 of their 191 reviews are all 1-star reviews.
If you are looking to purchase a TV, camera or any electronics from Abe’s of Maine, you might want to look at their reviews carefully before you purchase from them. Reviewfraud does not recommend them as a business and suggests you shop elsewhere.
Comments
I have purchased several expensive items from Abes of Maine and always been satisfied.
Author
FYI, I removed the link back to Abe’s of Maine. I hope this is true and was the case for you. I have seen countless other people claim the opposite is true. However the positive reviews is what is rather alarming and the reason for the post.
Let’s see the receipts & shipping bills of lading indicating delivery with date please.
Thanks
AMEN. another fraud review
Be smart, STAY AWAY from any store that closes Saturday, this makes it fraud/sacm proof!
It could be a sign of a Jewish or 7th Day Adventist business. Your comment makes no sense. I have no information on Abe’s of Main one way or the other.
I called them today and someone with an Abraic accent is no 7th day Adventist, he tried to bait and switch me and I am so glad I am not that naive.
ROOSHV, that is not a good gauge of what makes a store a scammer or not. B&H Photo in New York is closed on Saturday and is the most highly respected professional electronics store in the US. Abetter guide would be to look and see if they are a authorized retailer/dealer of Sony, Canon, Nikon, Samsung, etc. products. Abe’s of Maine is not while B&H Photo is for all of them and many more.
You do know that Adorama and BHphoto are cloesed on Friday and Saturday.
this company misleds me they up sell.i will not do business with them anymore
They did the same to me. No more of my money
Yes you are so true,
they try to upsell very misleading I will never do business with them again
Why fraud? If it’s a Jewish owner store they will most definitely be closed Saturdays. Very common, I suggest you search that.
Stay away from these horrible people. I just fell for the call back and was sold something that was already included. I feel ashamed. Do not buy anything from these people. Stick with B and H or Adorama.
Abe’s of Maine sells ‘grey market’ non-US camera’s. They have no warranty!!! They advertise very low prices, and then when you order, they require you to call them so they can upsell by stating that certain accessories don’t come with the camera when in fact they do………..from reputable merchants. I purchased a Canon 6D Mk II from them in October 2018, and ended up over-paying $1599. There was no mention that the camera came with no warranty……no mention of the grey market. This was fraud pure and simple!!!!
Same thing happened to me, Nikon refused to repair broken lens as it was ‘grey market lens. .
Never knew such a thing existed. Do not purchase from Abes of Maine, expensive lesson learned.
Even if you do buy a US model, Abe’s of Maine is NOT an authorized dealer of Canon/Nikon/Sony cameras, and buying from them WILL VOID YOUR WARRANTY.
See https://www.abesofmaine.com/Support_Center.htm
Thank you so much! I was just about to purchase Sony WH-1000XM3 Headphone.
Author
I have the same pair and ordered mine from Amazon.
Just tried to purchase a Canon L lens from them and was told there was no Canon warranty on it; Was told it was new from the factory but because of the ‘special price’ I could not get the Canon warranty; of course they had one they would sell me………
Heard nothing but bad reports on these people; come to believe Amazon is preferable
I experienced the up sell routine as well, the old “does not come with a battery” trick and fell for it. My bad. The camera did come very quickly. It was the standard Canon 90D with the kit lens advertised for 1189 but it was really 1489 which was still not a bad price but I did not feel great about how they went about selling the camera to me. Equipment works great and they did say they honor the one year warranty- we will see about that. Will likely not do business with them again. Love the camera, did not like how they do business.
I’m curious what it means when they do not sell with a battery. I saw one posted on eBay that way. How is that a scam? It didn’t seem right to me, but I can’t figure it out.
What probably you haven’t realized is that usually Abe’s of Maine advertised, for example, the price of a camera and you place an order for that camera. Days later they call you for the confirmation of your order saying that if you want the American model, you must pay, for example, an extra of US$150.00.
Ordered a camera and lens package on a Friday. Received an email on Sunday asking me to call to speak to a the Most Bored CSR In The World – who then told me that the camera lacked a battery, battery charger and lens caps. Tried to sell me a “retail package” for $200 more that wasn’t listed on the website. I’ve bought cameras for 35 years and never had one ship without a battery. Canceled the order and bought from a competitor I trust, paying the same.
Author
I have heard similar stories like this. I am happy to hear that you found a camera elsewhere. Make sure to leave a review for that vendor to help them out. I know that it will be a lot to them.
The same just happen to me , I purchased a camera and they called me on the phone and stated it would be another $200 for Battery , charger , and cables . As a disabled Vet money is what it is . When I informed him that I could not afford another $200 he proceeded to snap at me and say WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU CANT AFFORD IT !!! . Then all of a sudden the camera was not in stock and would be a week to get , I said cancel the whole thing and then it became well I have a camera and he would through in the accessories. This was a very bad experiance and I suggest everyone file a complaint who has had issues
Same exact thing happen to me …..
Same thing happened to me. I feel sick to my stomach just thinking about it. I wish I had known ahead of time.
Thanks for letting us know. I was about to make a purchase from them.
Literally just happened to me…
Sounds like a real scumbag store.
stay away from this shit hole.
I’ll take my X 100 F business elsewhere.
cancer, avoid at all costs! bait and switch. will call you after you ordered to tell you some bullshit and upsell you. i doubt they have anything in stock. then they will threaten you with a restocking fee of 15%. then they will insult you. cancer pieces of shit. good luck.
I had a similar experience I will never buy from them again
You did what I should have done!!!! I got the camera I ordered, but I paid full retail……not the advertised price. Now I am informed by Canon, that I have no warranty because Abe’s of Maine sells ‘grey market’ cameras from outside the US. I now have a $400 repair bill. Abe’s of main needs to be put out of business., and Google should stop listing their fraudulent ‘come-on’ prices.
There were some very reliable electronics and camera dealers (e.g. Oldens) and there still are. I have done business with B&H for decades and the only problem has been FEDEX – twice I received shipments that looked as if the boxes had been used for football practice. The first shipment contained chemistry, and a bag of fixer had been punctured several times – there was fixer all over everything but B&H customer service was of little help. “Clean it up carefully and wash your hands well” was what Mr. Posner suggested, far from what I expected. No mention of how the bag was punctured (not in transit because there were no holes in the box.) It was my first and only negative experience with B&H.
I received a camera from them as a present. So i do not have any options if the camera is bad. I am assuming hopefully that even if it is a grey market camera it will function properly.
Purchased a Cannon 6D Mark ii from them today and am now very nervous. Like everyone else the advertised price was lower than most retailers but after I placed my order a VERY fast talking guy named Steve called to confirm it and say it did not come with a battery, strap, caps etc and it was also the Asian model and all modes and settings would be in Japanese. Said he can get me American model for $400 more. I was walking into a meeting at work and while I did state I can get batteries for like $60 he tried to say these are special ion lithium yada yada and that is why. I didn’t have time to deal with it so said ok and hung up. I called back later in the day when I had more time and was told that if I stick with the lower price is does not come with a warranty and will be in all Japanese. I was told I purchased the American model and would receive the warranty card to fill out and register directly with Cannon. I went with them because the financing was good and it was interest free for 6 months. I tried to call back to cancel my order 3 times but even though it was during business hours I got a message saying call back during business hours. I am nervous I got swindled! Like many others I saw decent reviews on many sites and thought I was safe. WRONG. Will update if my camera ever comes…
Author
You need to report them to the FTC. That sounds like deceptive marketing practices and should be investigated by the proper authorities.
Their ads say “body only” which is a crystal clear fact. There ad would make your reply seem more deceptive. As for up-selling some are posting about, that’s common ethical practice in many businesses. A smart practice at that, as long as it’s clear what the extra would be and what the extra would cost.
Author
First off, while I appreciate you coming here and leaving a comment, I am not keen on the fact that you choose to hide your identity and use a fake name and email address. You have that right, however, it’s an insult to everybody that posted a comment here and any past or future customers. With that being said, I have taken a look at the website and while you are technically correct, no normal consumer will understand what that means. It is beyond obvious be the online complaints post on several complaint boards. I am going to tell you that same thing I tell every business, “listen to your customer’s feedback, complaints, and reviews. This is your opportunity to fix issues with your business and improve your service.” The ball is in Abe of Maine’s court to address the overwhelming theme in the complaints. Sticking with the StarWars theme, “Do. or do not. There is no try.”
I’ve read enough. Thanks for the insight…The old saying holds true…If it sounds too good to be true. Canon EOS 80D 24.2 MP SLR – Body Only. $689
Oh, shoot. I am having the exact same thing done to me with a Nikon lens. I am regretting it dearly. I think I’ll return the lens the moment it arrives at my doorstep, as I do not trust what is in the box.
I just ordered a Mark IV camera with one lens and got the same thing. USA batteries, no strap. Ended up calling them and they say it’s shipped. It better be what it’s supposed to be🤯
Be very careful buying from Abe’s of Maine. Don’t expect any customer service or warranty . You may feel like your getting a deal but after they get you on buying necessary accessories like battery’s, you really are not . But more importantly , after your purchase your on your own . They won’t email or call back. Do not buy a extended warranty , it is totally useless . They will tell you the repair is not covered but can’t tell you were in the warranty contract it says that . Beware of @Abe’sofmain!
Real scumbag store
All the sales people should be locked up in a deep dark hole
Shame on you
Abe’s of Maine does not stand behind the products they sell or their warranties.
I bought a Canon 5D Mark III Digital SLR and a 2-year warranty that was supposed to cover everything but malicious damage and losing the camera. The camera was used extensively around water, but was not dropped in the water. It started working poor, so we took it to an authorized dealer who said there was moisture inside and could not be fixed. I contact Abe’s warranty company, New Leaf, and explained the camera was not dropped in the water but there is moisture damage. New Leaf said the camera was not covered, had I dropped in the water it would have been covered; but since I was truthful and explained it was used around water New Leaf would not honor the warranty.
I then contact Abe’s of Maine and Lisa, the Customer Service Manager, said they would “make this right”. After trying for several months for Abe’s to cover the warranty and “make it right”, Abe’s offered to give me back what I paid for the warranty, I don’t want the warranty payment back; that would be like paying car insurance and when you need the insurance they give you your premium back with no coverage. Wednesday, October 24, Abe’s of Main offered to SELL me a camera at a discount. I don’t want to buy another camera from Abe’s, I want the camera replaced under the warranty.
I first contact New leaf and Abe’s in July and four months later I am still trying to get Abe’s to do the right thing and honor the warranty I purchased on the camera from them.
I ordered a TV today from them, accepted their “6 months no interest” financing (for a fee of $99.00!) for the $2096.99 purchase price of the TV. Everywhere else was selling it for not less than $2796.99. I received a bill from them showing the transaction as advertised for $2096,99. However, imagine my surprise when I received an email from FORTIVA that showed a balance due of $2484.99! I called Jeff, the sales rep who sold me the TV, and told him that I never agreed to a shipping insurance fee of $384. In fact, I had told him during our initial sales call that I only wanted the free shipping without any add-ons. He wasn’t happy, but he agreed. When I called him back after I received the aforementioned email from FORTIVA and told him that I had not agreed to any insurance. When I tried to cancel my transaction, he became aggressive, and said there would be a $15.00 “restocking fee”. I asked how could there be a restocking fee when I had just placed the order not more than 15 minutes prior! At that point, he broke the phone connection and would not answer return calls. I then called Jennifer, a CSR person, who eventually agreed to refund $100 if I would agree to accept the order. I agreed, since at $2384.99, including shipping, “White Glove Service for free” (the delivery men bring the TV into my home, unbox it to determine if any damage has occurred during shipment, and then plug it in to make sure that it works. I wish that I had read these reviews prior to placing an order with them as I would never have even called them in the first place! I will update this review as this little drama unfolds further.
Just spoke with Jennifer, wouldn’t it be cheaper to not be dicks to thier customers than give us $$ back? I only wanted to cancel because the Adam guy I spoke with told me I was “not nice” and “don’t you stand behind your word?” and “are you a liar?” when I tried to cancel the warranty and filters.
I am not broke, I could and should have just bought from a regular place and paid a little more.
I purchased a new Nikon 16mm Fisheye lens on https://www.abesofmaine.com/ at Abe’s of Maine on 10/17/2017. Iwas called the next day by a guy who told me that in order to get the accessories that come with the lens it would
be additional money and he talked me into the good deal and said lens was under full US warranty. I just sent the
lens in for service to Nikon last week since it never really focused well and was told by Nikon that they cannot look
at it or service the lens since it is a gray market lens. Now it is too late to dispute the charge with my bank and I am stuck with a lens that is a gray market.
Even if you think you are outside the dispute time frame, always call your cc company and confirm. I have had instances where the cc company will reverse charges, especially in cases of fraud.
I bought nikon d750 from abes of maine.they say it is brand new. But there is no warrenty papers. This sales man said this nikon is imported form oversea gray maket .it is realy nonsense.store will be fix one year warrenty.This online store is real crooks.also before shipping this store ask to buy battery and charger.package does not come with battery and charger.This store shut down by nj consumer affair . REAL CROOKS PEOPLE.NEVER BUY CAMERA FROM THIS CROOKS.
I bought a 55″ curved TV from Abe’s of Mainr about two years ago. Other than the delivery guys being about 2 hours late, I had no problems with them and my TV is outstanding. Sorry to hear so many people had problems.
Ordered an EOS 6D Mark II and received it with no problem. The camera is amazing. Was able to register it successfully with Canon for the warranty no problem. They did however pull the “battery and charger” scam with me – they will not place the order unless you call them to “confirm” your order. The camera is everything that I wanted, and I did get it cheaper than most places, but what people are saying is true about accessories and batteries – they do appear to scam you in this way.
I just experienced the same accessories scam from Abe of Maine today ordering a Sony a7 iii body online for a small discount. When I responded to a call, I was told that the purchase is ‘body’ only, without battery or other normal accessories that comes from a Sony camera package. Never heard of that before. Should have read all the reviews before I placed the order. Big lesson learned.
Bait and switch! Fraudulent business practices — the whole nine yards. Ordered a TV online — great deal. Too good, looking back now. Got a call that I needed to cover the “insurance” for shipping which added another $400.00. When I said no then the haggling ensued. A free “warranty”, etc. No way. I don’t mind a little haggling in person but not for an online/on phone situation. I’ve never had a problem with B&H. I’ll stick with them.
Just got off the phone ordered a camera sony for better financing and a “sale” price. Some guy who I can hardly understand, sounded like he was asleep said he was calling to confirm then started to offer to sale me a battery, charger, card etc. All the things that usually come with a camera like when I order from B&H. I went back to the site and sure enough there are no specs. for what comes with the camera. He went on to go on how he will give me the price at B&H and sale me the batter, charger and other stuff to meet that price. What scam, told him so he mumbled something about being in business 40 years and so I canceled my order and asked for an email saying it was cancelled. Lesson learned never fall for the “sale” price.
I’m so glad I found this page. I found a pro camcorder on Abe’s that was $600 below the price being charged by B&H. My experience is that if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is. I googled, “Is Abe’s of Maine legit?” and found this site. Needless to say, I’m going to buy from the company I trust. Plus, a store that sells camcorders and refrigerators is probably not the store you want to buy pro video equipment from.
A few days ago, I noticed an online ad by Abe’s of Maine for a Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM Zoom Lens for $1359 ($240 below Adorama and B&H) and placed an order. The next day, I received an e-mail stating that they would NOT fulfill my order unless I called and spoke to Jeff. I called, no one answered, left a message. Next day, I received another e-mail to call Steven. I called, turns out his name is “Jeff Stevens”, but with a foreign accent. He told me that the $1359 price is for a grey market lens, and “recommended” that I upgrade to a US market lens, but did not state the price. He fast-talked me into purchasing a 3 year extended warranty and a 3 filter set at a greatly reduced price. I was attending a conference and had no online access to do a price check. When I received the “Proof of Purchase” by e-mail, it stated, “(RETAIL USA KIT INCLUDES LENS HOOD & POUCH + 2 CAPS+3 HD FILTERS + 3 YEAR WARRANTY)”, for a whopping $2247. It felt very wrong and I immediately went online to investigate. I found a few websites that addressed this company’s shady practices. including “bait and switch”. My trust in Abe’s hit rock bottom. Luckily, I did not accept the package yet, as UPS attempted to deliver it but I was not home. I called the credit card company for help, and they stated that if I do not accept the delivery, Abe’s of Maine is obligated to reverse the charges. I will post another reply if this is not successful.
Unfortunately, I found all of these horrendous reviews two days after ordering a Nikon Coolpix P900 from Abes. I had looked for reviews prior to purchase but only found positive reviews. I ordered the camera which was $415 and the bundle for another $79, and the 3 yr. extended DOP warranty. Yes, I got a phone call prior to shipping and the fast-talking salesman snookered me into the better battery and a faster memory card scam. The incredible battery he described would cost an additional $50.00 and the super-fast memory card an additional, $20 which brought the total to $678. However, I never received an email containing a revised receipt, or a copy of the warranty, and when I checked my credit card, I had been charged an additional $91.00. I have been royally shafted. The camera came yesterday.There was a Nikon battery in the camera box and a cheap no name that came in the bundle. No upgraded super-fast battery. The only memory card was the one included in the bundle. Also no warranty card. The salesman said they would register my camera. I am calling to return it monday and calling my credit card company. Biggest fraud i have ever encountered!
Lucky You for not accepting delivery. Their return policy, however, states you will still be charged a 15% re-stocking fee and shipping in both directions. Still a lot less than $2247. Call and start a dispute with your credit card company, and watch for additional charges for the shipping and re-stocking fees. I was not so lucky. I accepted my package. Now I am fighting to get a full refund for my camera which I thought was such a bargain before they pressured me into purchasing extras I didn’t even receive. I wasn’t told my camera was grey market or refurbished, it is supposed to be new and genuine, but there was no Nikon warranty card in the box nor did I get a copy of the extended warranty I purchased or proof it was registered. I am an old woman who was just looking to take some decent wildlife photos. I was not looking for a protracted battle to get the merchandise I bought and paid for. So disappointed and angry! Why is this place still in business!!
Hi, can you contact me I am an old lady who wanted to take wildlife photos too, after they ripped me off by taking another $450 from my bank card they sent me a filthy dirty used piece of junk in a ripped up Sony box. Sony say the camera and lens are not USA and no warranty, I am starting a class action lawsuit, they will be out of business by the time I finish with them. My email is [email protected] anyone defrauded please contact me. I am also a member of the press I WILL get this done.
why is it I have the exact mirrorless sony full frame he got his at five star online they are totally differenT
Thank you for the review/comments here. I was thinking about purchasing a Panasonic GH5 or GH5s from Abe because they are $300 less than the competition (Mother’s Day sale?). Not thinking about buying from them now. I’ll stick with B&H or Amazon or Amorama, Best Buy, etc.
I am afraid the same story of bait & switch is continuing with me. I purchased a Nikon D610 body and was call by “Adam” about two or three days later. He stated the camera I ordered does not come with a warranty or battery or charger, blah, blah. blah. After negotiating back and forth we agreed on an additional $200 for a “kit” camera body w/ the accessories (USA version). He also stated he would throw in a 3 year warranty with my purchase. Well guess what…no warranty info and no USA camera body. I called Adam directly. He was EXTREMELY RUDE and would not let me speak. He just transferred me to Customer Service. There I explained everything to “Lisa.” She seemed nice on the phone. She said they would listen to the recorded conversation and get back with me the next day. It is now the next day and I have not heard anything back yet. I will update this posting at its conclusion. STAY AWAY FROM ABE’S OF MAINE!!!!
I purchased a Canon 80D. The listed price for a Memorial Day Special was $769. I then got a call from a salesman “Ted” he then told me that it did not come with a USA Warranty, that it did not include the standard 5hr battery that if I wanted a USA Warranty that I would have to pay $100 extra then I’d get the Warranty and the 5hr Battery. He then tried to sell me all kinds of additional items. I knew this was a classic bait and switch, what he didn’t know was that I used to work for a competitor and knew the game. So knowing that the original deal was most likely a gray market camera. I told him forget it, that it was going to be a back up camera I didn’t need it, cancel my order. All of a sudden for that $100 additional I was now going to get a USA Camera with the manufacturer’s warranty, an upgraded newer lens, 5 hr battery, charger, a strap and software! LOL Yeah everything that already comes in a standard Canon 80D 18-55mm Kit! “Still a smoking hot deal for $869” to quote “Ted” plus he through in UPS Shipping!! LOL. Buyer’s beware. I am waiting for my shipment. I called to get my UPS tracking number to assure myself that it has truly been shipped, no problem there. So let’s see what arrives. I will update. Believe me if I was scammed or defrauded in any way. My credit card will dispute the charge and I may end up with a free whatever canon 80D that arrives!
Follow up: I called to cancel my order because I found the entire Kit with everything plus at Newegg cheaper with tax included. I was told that I would be charged a restocking fee because it’s not defective if I kept the USA Canon 80D she would credit $25 to my credit card. I asked about the warranty – she assured me that it was good all I had to do was register it with Canon. LIE. I called Canon, I can register the camera with Canon, but once I submit the paperwork for a repair it’s void. Because Abe’s of Maine is NOT an Authorized Canon Dealer. Registration has nothing to do with Warranty. I have it in writing from Canon saying the Warranty is useless! All said and done I am still subject to their 15% restocking fee if I ship it back, my Visa said they cannot fight a condition of their terms. But told me to file a complaint with the NJ State’s Attorney General’s office and make an official Consumer complaint regarding their unethical practices. They LIED about the Warranty! I am going to fight this all the way up the chain!!! ….. to be continued
Good news! I found out today that irregardless of the USA Useless Warranty that “Dishonest Abe’s of Maine” assured me was valid (Canon USA gave me written proof that its not because Abe’s of Maine is NOT AN AUTHORIZED CANON DEALER). My credit card that I bought it on automatically extends any Warranty on any item I buy no matter where I buy it from. So, if the camera I bought from “Dishonest Abe’s of Maine” lasts one year – I automatically have an additional 2 years warranty coverage no questions asked from my Visa! All I need is proof of purchase and copy of registration and warranty on the receipt which “Dishonest Abe’s of Maine: did indeed print on my receipt! Whew!!! I WILL NEVER PURCHASE OR REFER DISHONEST “Abe’s of Maine” to anyone. ALL OF US SHOULD REPORT THEM to the NJ Attorney General’s Office – for their unethical business practices!
Many thanks to the owner of this website, who started this article, and subsequently informative reviews.
There are more reviews on:
https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.abesofmaine.com
Because of a Google add advertising a Father’s Day sale of a Panasonic GH5 body for $1,300, I also just bought a Panasonic GH5 kit for $1,500. The kit includes items below:
Panasonic Lumix DC-GH5 Mirrorless Micro Four Thirds Digital Camera (Body Only) with 1200 x 64gb SDXC Card, (2) BLF19 Batteries, Charger, Neckstrap, Body Cap AOM Starter Kit
The kit is advertised for $1,700, but after salesman Ted called me this morning to confirm last night’s order and upsell from the out of stock GH5 body to the kit, I negotiated with him to drop the price to $1,500 because I told him I compared the other kit items to Amazon and they weren’t worth the added $400.
I also bought the 14-140 mm lens because it costs $419 compared to Amazon at $692.
I’m on this reviewfraud website because I started wondering why I get a morning phone call that Abe’s was already out of stock on the GH5 body 11 days from Father’s Day. That’s classic bait and switch.
After reading all of these reviews I emailed salesman [email protected] and Supervisor [email protected] the following below:
I just read the reviews of your company below.
https://reviewfraud.org/abes-of-maine/
Please confirm I am getting USA camera and lenses with a USA warranty for the Father’s Day sales prices on your website? Otherwise, kindly cancel and refund my order so I can buy from BH or Adorama before I leave for my travel trip soon.
Hopefully I can tell the world that I had a great shopping experience with Abe’s of Maine.
I will update all of you tomorrow.
Florencio,
what was the final resolution of your camera situation with Abes, unfortunately I didn’t see this fraud site before I bought the camera a D750 from them. Im curious how the situation resolved. I too was talked int upgrading everything from the batteries to the SD cards and the lens protectors. c I called and asked about the import model, he (ted) said the difference is the wifi, the US models have wifi, so he upgraded me… lol I should have known it was sketchy, I spent 3k, every time I called he threw in an upgraded warranty which is probably useless. I hope to hear what your resolution was
Holy cow! I was just getting ready to buy a Nikon 850 seeing that they have a special with $900 off. Then I thought I should find out why they have such a low price so I googled “abe’s of maine why low price” and it brought me to this site. Reading thru all the messages here, I feel like I dodged a bullet. As they say “if it is too good…..”
Same story with me. I ordered a Sony RX10 iv listed as a Memorial Day Special at $250 below retail. I received an email the next day asking me to call to confirm my order which I did. A week went by and I received another email asking to confirm my order. This time I spoke with some loser on the phone trying to up sell me a bunch of crap I didn’t want. I refused the chintzy crap upsells. Then I was told the camera that was supposedly in stock a week ago had just been ordered but it was a non-US version without a warranty. I was offered a US version for $100 more. This was the first I had heard the original order want a US version. I should have run away fast but agreed to the $@!?@ $100 adjustment as I was pressed for time and needed the camera for a trip. I was also thinking it was still $150 less than retail which was the best price I could find. I was told it would be shipped 3-day which fortunately turned out to be accurate. I received the camera 3 days later but the packaging seemed a little off like it had been opened and repacked. I started using the camera and every time I turn it on it displays a “Running on NTSC” warning which can’t be turned off. After a lot of research, I found a random post by someone saying this was an annoy-ware message put in place by Sony to prevent grey market cameras with default setting as PAL to be sold in the US. So guess what?!?! Those assholes ended up sending me a grey-market non-US version even after the upsell! Abe’s of Maine are a bunch of asshole crooks that should go to jail. Do not believe any of the positive reviews you see about Abe’s of Maine. They are fake and created by the company. So mad I fell for this crap for a measly $150 discount.
I ordered a Nikon 810 body only for 1,700 my card was charged no camera was delivered
Yeah, it’s a scam. I called to order a Canon EOS M50 because it was $100 cheaper than everywhere else. They listed the manufacturers part # as Part#: 2680C011 . When I look that part # up, it is the retail kit that includes kit lense, battery, charger, strap. That’s why I ordered it. I get an email the next day to call so they can verify the card-holder. Who then offers to upgrade the battery from a 2 hour battery to a 5 hour battery for $10. Sure, why not. except when he reads the price back it didn’t sound right – it sounded too high. I was walking into a meeting and couldn’t talk. When I got out of the meeting, I looked at the order details, and there was nothing in addition to the retail kit I had originally ordered, but the price on my invoice was $100 over what was advertised on their website. I call back in, am told what I ordered originally was just body and lens. When I ‘upgraded’ for the additional $100, I was upgrading to a retail kit like I would find in stores. I explained no, you listed a part # – and that part # is a retail kit – defined so by the manufacturer. I was offered my money back or keep the transaction as-is. I cancelled it and bought it from a reputable dealer. These guys are a scam. Advertised lower price, only to upsell back to the normal price, and from reading reviews here, it was very likely a gray-market camera that I couldn’t get warrantied anyway.
Beware of Abe’s of Maine photography. Just bought an 80D from them June 23rd, found out two days ago that one lens had a chip in it, called them up and they would not take it back saying I only had two weeks to return it. Also ipsild a battery and charger that they said did not come with the kit when it actually did have them right in the kit
Does anyone has experience (bad or good) by buying in store??
I just spent $1600 at Abe’s of Maine and when I opened the existing opened box (which was sold as new), I checked the serial and verified with Fuji that I was sold a “grey or black market camera with no warranty.”
Now, I too, am nervous. I just finished sending them an e-mail requesting they inform me of what the additional $400 was for – I placed the order on-line for a Sony FE 200-600 mm lens. I had placed it with B&H but they were out of stock and did not know when any would arrive. So I placed the order with Abe’s of Maine. I too, received a call back at a not good time for me – and they were talking about I ordered “Blank” and did I want the Retail Custom Kit Model….said it would come with an additional warranty. Said that it would come with a “lens cap” – really? Who would send out a 2k lens without a lens cap – I did agree and thought it was ridiculous. I received it today and have no idea how to know if it is grey market or not – there was no warranty information in what I received. How does one tell? I am waiting for their reply and will let you know what they say.
Hi,
I just placed an order with this place and after the upsell phone call decided to do some research on them and found this page. I could kick myself for not doing this first and of course, they already shipped so it’s too late. I’m just wondering, since you got a lens – did you receive it? How is it? Is it the real thing? I’m trying to figure out if it’s worth paying the fees to return it and dealing with getting a refund. Thanks!
They’ve been aggressively adding fake positive reviews since you originally posted this. They’re up to nearly 1000 now! Same nonsense with fake accounts that review the same couple of businesses. I looked at over 20 positive reviews and there was only 1 that could possibly have been real.
Thank you guys I was just going to purchase 5d mark iv as I was getting $500 less then Best Buy ,B&h ,Walmart back of my mind I was wondering how these guys are selling so cheap ,now thanks to review fraud site I got the the answer .will buy from B&H or any reputed site
Just tried to purchase a Canon L lens from them and was told there was no Canon warranty on it; Was told it was new from the factory but because of the ‘special price’ I could not get the Canon warranty; of course they had one they would sell me………
I am grateful to have found this site. I consider myself quite savvy in purchasing camera gear but I was swindled by Abe’s as well. The more I search online the more I realize the monumental number of people who have been scammed by them. Would anybody be interested in joining a class action lawsuit? Businesses like these should not be allowed to continue transacting. Email [email protected]
I bought a Sony A7 II camera from Abe’s of Maine. I got the bait and switch phone call about an hour after I made the online order. The camera was listed about $350 less than the same camera on Amazon. That seemed like a great deal. The sales person then told me that was not a retail version of the camera and it would not include the battery or battery charger, lens covers, etc. Having never dealt with them before I thought maybe they had special deals with the manufacturers to be able to sell stripped down cameras. So I took the bait. In the end, because I complained a good bit I did end up getting the camera slightly, and I emphasize slightly less than I would have paid from Amazon. The bottom line though is that you cannot just order from Abe’s of Maine and expect that you are getting the deal they say you are getting. They will call you and tell you that what they have advertised is not the retail version (a straight up lie no doubt) and try to up sell you to the retail price or even more. The salesperson acted like he was giving me a deal. It is quite a fraud. The good news is I got the right camera and I did actually get a little discount. The bad news is that Abe’s continues to do business this way which is very deceptive. They will not get additional business from me. I was going to order a lens today that they had advertised $110 less than Amazon’s price. But after last time I decided to look into the company’s reviews before returning to purchase anything from them. No doubt if I ordered that lens I would get a phone call explaining how it doesn’t have a warranty or lens covers or a box or something or is not the retail version. Just be honest with your prices. I realize with Amazon matching everyone’s price these days its a little hard to do business online, but you’re not going to keep customers coming back with these tactics.
Thank you for this article. I was about to buy a Canon 5D iv and the 24-70mm f/2.8 II lens from Abe’s. The price was somewhat too good to be true compared to competitors and hence decided to investigate before finalizing the purchase. After reading all the complains here and on other sides, I’m so glad i did. Went straight back to B&H Photo and bought it there.
After they made me call them to “confirm” my order (email wasn’t sufficient) and having to listen to a list of items they tried to upsell, in addition to a $99 7 year warranty and being told that I shouldn’t miss out on this deal, I decided to do some more research on this place and found this site. I just got a telephoto lens for $100 less than most other retailers and am now regretting it. The restocking fee and shipping to return it is a significant amount and I’m debating on how to deal with this. Does any one have any experience with the actual equipment? Are they real? Do they work?
I was just scammed by them on a Canon lens. They charged me $180 over their so-called sale price which, they said, was an international lens and I had to pay more to get a warranty US lens. Then they shipped me the international lens. DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH THESE SCAMMERS.
Abes of Maine is dangerous! I had a series of email communications with Abes while attempting to have a television that I had ordered delivered by Abes to me. They sent be 5-6 or more emails telling me to call and confirm my purchase. But every time I tried to call them, no one would pick up the telephone, even though a recorded message eventually told me that only one caller was ahead of me on their phone line.
So I became suspicious. I left a message with Abes complaining about the delay.
This morning, while on my email account to see if Abes had replied to me, all my emails with Abes suddenly vanished! I’ve talk to my provider, Google, about this. They tell me that, recently, they have discovered that some vendors have the ability to reach out to our email accounts and delete all their emails with us. Isn’t that scary!
Don’t even think of using Abes of Maine. Ever.
I was about to purchase two Fuji lenses from them and I noticed lens hoods were not included although all new lens from Fuji included them. After reading your reviews I see why. Stay away and save myself a lot of headache. It pays to read reviews.
The website Abe’s of Main is a scam! After purchasing the TV as the advertised price I received a call from “Ted” indicating I had to pay an additional almost $500 for “shipping insurance”. The listing on the website made no mention of it nor did the email confirmation I received from placing the order. ted tried to negotiate with me the insurance cost by “throwing it” white glove delivery and applying phantom discounts so I would purchase the TV. I decided not to take the bite and take my business somewhere else where honesty is valued.
We ordered an LG C8 4K TV for $1896. We received an order confirmation with the total as $1896. Then my friend received a call saying that we had to pay for shipping insurance, bringing the total to $2139. Abes’ of Maine tried to increase their profit margin by tacking on a fake charge that was not listed on the final order confirmation. I called back and Jennifer said she had to talk to the manager to see if she could waive this fee. Jennifer had me on hold for 4 minutes and came back with the good news that they would waive the fee. While I was on hold, I found this complaint page about Abe’s of Maine. My friend’s bank (credit card company) declined the Abe’s of Maine charge as fraud. Jennifer stated that the charge would be $1896 and to contact the credit card company to accept the purchase. When my friend and I discussed it, we decided to buy this LG 4K TV somewhere else and pay more money. Bestbuy, or B&H or another reputable site. We were not comfortable spending $1896 online with Abe’s of Maine. She wanted to buy some place else that was honest, even if it meant spending $2196. AOM trying to uncharge or add extra fees is unethical and falls under the category of consumer fraud. We didn’t want to deal with a company that lies to its customers. We called Jennifer back and cancelled the order. We also notified the bank not to accept any charges from Abe’s of Maine. My advice to anyone thinking about doing business with this company – STAY AWAY. Abe’s of Maine is a dishonest company. Do not waste your time ordering anything from this business.
First off, all the 4 & 5 star reviews here have been created by Abe’s of Maine employees. Easy to spot that once you read a couple as they obsvously are not bright authors. I was screwed over on two orders in a row. A $1,000 camera order and a $300 tripod order.
Here is how Abe’s of Maine works as of 2020. This reflects my experience I just had, twice.
1) You place an order online thinking you found a deal (but really you are a victim-to-be). You are going to feel yourself die a little through this process, so expect that especially when your package arrives. This feeling is because you watch theft happen in front of you but it is too late by the time you realize they are conartists and you have been cheated.
2) After you place your online order, the order gets frozen until you answer your phone from a nice, but nagging sales person. You answer because you want to get things moving and resolve any issues. Who wouldn’t be excited for a new Nikon camera or a new $300 tripod?
3) The sales person urgently warns you the camera is out of stock or it is some gray market version only, and then offers an alternative that is as expensive as getting the product from any other vendor. In my case it was a $1,000 Nikon camera they sold me when Nikon sells it for $1,000 too. If you push back they pad the deal with extra stuff like camera lens, SD cards and batteries to make it feel worth it. Some stuff comes with the camaera anyway lol! WTF. So you put trust them since it is your first time and you believe no scammers are this up front but the sales guys are crafty, fast and pushy. So when the package arrives I find that they removed the factory Nikon warranty and sold me one of their own (problably fraudulant) 3rd party warrenties. Nikon’s website did not know the serial number even existed when I checked it on their registry! That cannot be good. The camera did appear new and original so I will take this just as a painful lesson. The accessoires I all found on amazon for a fractions of Abe’s price. For example the cheap chinese lenses they provide sell for $399.00 (yup, thats four hundred USD) on Abe’s but are $24.99 on Amazon, same part numbers. The battery they sold me for a $49 value on Abe’s but is a $4.99 import battery that dies in 30 minutes.
For my second beating it got worse. I placed a second $150 order in because I didn’t question the first order yet. I ordered a tripod online and they again followed up with their order stall and scripted procedure phone call. Again, they claimed the tripod I ordered is not good. So I said give me your best tripod and I paid $300 for a 72″ high quality one. Well to my “big surprise” it was a cheap plastic Ultimaxx one. It is not even on their website as it is not available, so what did they sell me! I found it online for $18 and $30 on amazon and Rakuton. I stoppped looking after about 5 sources of under $40 because it made me sick. They keep hanging up on me when I call for help about any of this. Adam the sales guy is quite a player. I emailed Lisa Berry, some account specialist but havent had any sign of life there.
So they way they work is they attract orders by offering low prices but they never plan to commit to that price. The whole purpose is to get your phone number and credit card number and persuade you into ordering cheap junk from them. How do these people sleep at night?
I am sure they will try to take this review down because it is too truthful. Then they will spin another bunch of fake employee made reviews online. This is so anti-american. Hopefully their business dies from deceit. If they fix this order I will retract this review but I do not expect much.
Just got off the phone with Michael at Abe’s of Maine–in Linwood NJ. He asked me why I was cancelling an order and I said due to the phone call in which he tried upselling batteries, I was driving and hung up on the call. Tried calling back at home and couldn’t get through. I sent an Email cancelling the order right away and called my bank to dispute the charge.
When they finally returned a call this morning, he started saying I was rude and he would charge me a cancellation fee–all the while getting more belligerent himself, I’ve no idea what will happen but I’ll let my credit card company sort it out.
Abes is known for listing items on their website that are priced “to good to be true”. These are gray market or Import models that they list and then call you under the guise of customer security to make sure you made the purchase and then, during that call, will upsell you to the US version of the item you wanted. They also throw in items that you don’t need or want, telling you that they are giving you a deal.
For example, I purchased an expensive Canon lens that I assumed was a US version since it was not mentioned that it was a gray market or import version. I got the call and the gentleman who called me told me that he would ship out my lens and I should have it in 2-3 weeks. He then explained that I could have it sooner (3 days) if I wanted to purchase the US version, with Canon US warranty for $300 more and he would throw in a UV filter (which you don’t need by the way). He was pretty rude and sounded like he’d rather be getting his fingernails pulled out than working that day. I begrudgingly agreed and in hindsight wish I would have shopped at B&H or Adorama.
When I received the lens, it came in a poorly packaged box with little padding. Inside the shipping box was a plain brown box with no Canon logo, no warranty card, no documentation of any sort, no lens case that you typically get with a Canon lens, Just a lens thrown in a box. I was concerned that the item was gray market so I called and got the same guy who upselled me. He explained that the lens was part of a kit that comes with the 5DMark IV and that is why the box was just a plain brown box.
I did register the lens with Canon and it seems that it is a US version lens, but the whole experience left a bad taste in my mouth. I will never buy from Abe’s again. Stick with B&H or Adorama, Canon or a store like Best Buy where you know you can trust what you are getting.
Abe’s of Maine is a complete scam. Michael said a lens being returned had not been received. When I noted the tracking number says it was signed for a week earlier – he asked that I call the next day to speak with his supervisor, Lisa. Called multiple times, no answer. Still fighting on refund of $2,300.
Check this link:
https://www.dnb.com/business-directory/company-profiles.abes_electronics_center_inc.269af2dd9cf8709dfab49930f99eb00c.html
I purchased a lens via Amazon from Abe’s Electronics Center but this Dunn and Bradstreet site is indicating it is Abe’s of Maine doing business as Abe’s Electronics Center.
The ad listed an add-on kit including a 1-year warranty which never came with the lens and their customer service is acting like they don’t know what I’m asking about.
My wife just purchased a Nikon D850 that was supposed to be a body only purchase for $2396. She placed the order and was sent an invoice for $2439. This happened on 11/07/20 at 08:32 AM. On 11/08/20, Michael Hartman sent an email indicating we needed to “confirm”our order. We had already received an email confirming our order. My wife received the email and telephone Michael Hartman, I was not involved with the upsell interaction. Had it been me, I would have told Michael Hartman we already received the confirmation email. The order is already confirmed. Michael Hartman only called because we did not purchase the extended warranty. He not only talked my wife into buying an overly expensive ($499!) extended warranty that won’t kick in for a year after the non-existent factory warranty “expires”, but he talked her into a bundle for an additional $650 that included the lens cover, battery, neck strap, eye piece, wires, and charger that comes with a “body only” purchase, a spare battery($19.95 on Amazon), and a no name Zoom Speed SD card 128gb ultra 4K HD1200x listed on their website for $399.99 ($11.11 on EBay). When I opened the camera box the seal was broken. They had removed the warranty card and placed the battery and an empty Zoom Speed SD card package inside the Nikon D850 box. We had to request a new SD card be sent. They didn’t argue or anything, they just sent another card. Return period for full refund expired while waiting for SD card to arrive. SD card failed could not be reformatted and 203 pictures worth of data was lost. I called to complain about the $399.99 SD card failing and Lisa the customer service representative said she would send a new card. I asked for a different brand of card be sent instead of the Zoom Speed card and she said that wouldn’t be a problem. Six days later my replacement card package arrived in the mail. Lisa lied, she sent me the same card as the first. In fact she sent me two of them! It’s a good thing too because wouldn’t you know both of those cards are garbage too. One card wouldn’t format and the other wouldn’t let the camera or the computer retrieve the data( data cannot be retrieved error message on both camera and computer).
12/06/20, I called Abe’s of Maine and spoke to Michael Hartman. He looked up my order and placed me on hold to talk to customer service. After 24 minutes on hold, they disconnected me. While so was waiting, I researched my Nikon D850 serial number, it begins with a 6 which means it is European and I have no warranty. I also cannot update it, trade it, or return it. Michael Hartman refused to answer questions when I called back stating he “Doesn’t have to answer any questions or even talk to me for that matter”. He yelled into the phone Abe’s of Maine was not an authorized dealer of Nikon Products there is no warranty, the website clearly says that and hung up phone on me.
I tried to write a review on their website about the SD card because there was no review for these over priced pieces of useless plastic. It turns out all of the products on the Abe’s of Maine website have zero reviews. Abe’s of Maine website does not accept reviews. Now I am wondering if the camera I purchased is counterfeit. I am writing an FTC complaint tomorrow. I will also contact the New Jersey Department of Commerce and see where I get with them, maybe I’ll get lucky and Abe’s of Maine didn’t renew their business license or something. BBB says they don’t respond anymore so that’s a dead end.
Returning a camera to them. Lisa “the Manager” Berry sent a return code. Lisa Bamerru sent an email stating she would mgive a full refund before she sent the return numbers with the return instructions. Instructions are ridiculous. Not following any of the 9 return instructions will result in one Abe’s penalizing the customer and keeping more money or they refuse the item and return it at the consumers expense. Keep in mind anyone who purchases a “Fresh From The Factory Brand New Import Model” is purchasing a camera that has no warranty, and if you purchase the “Bundle” we purchased, it will be placed inside the camera box. That means that the box is no longer factory sealed and Abe’s of Maine removed the Warranty card. Read the return instructions, they specifically say you have to return the warranty card and if you don’t they keep more money from your refund. This is literally fraud they are demanding a warranty card they they removed to cover up the fact there is no factory warranty. I am awaiting their response after they have signed for and received the camera. If Lisa Berry does not give a full refund I will file criminal charges first and after I win the criminal case I will file a civil suit. Deirdre Mason is the current District prosecuting attorney, I encourage anyone who has been denied a refund or is a victim of fraud or a bait and switch sale while speaking to a sales associate in response to a request to “confirm a sale” the day after you made an online purchase and received a purchase confirmation.
Yesterday I placed an order with Abe’s of Maine for a Nikon Z50 and received a message today asking me to call to confirm the order. Nice! Seemed like a pro move. So, today I called Abe’s of Maine to speak with the salesman who messaged me to confirm the order. The salesman informed me that the camera I ordered was an import model (grey market I’m guessing) and came with only a 30 minute battery. What??? What other battery other than a Nikon EN-EL25 would come with a Nikon Z50? And further informed me it was quite incomplete, plain box, no warranty, etc. etc.
Next thing I know this fella is trying to upsell me the same camera, the US box, complete with body caps, and a 5 hour battery, etc. etc. for considerably more but still at special holiday pricing which raised alarm bells and when I expressed uncertainty and was thinking I should cancel, he canceled the order quicker than I could blink. Matter of fact the cancelation notice came in while I was blinking… End of conversation.
At least for me I wouldn’t feel comfortable giving Abe’s of Maine another opportunity.
Abes of Maine (located in N.J.) that’s their first lie. I ordered a sony camcorder on Feb 3, 2021 at $848. When I went back to my order it had been changed to $939.
They will take my order at $939……….but at $848 it is out of stock.
A real sleaze bag.
Abe’s of Maine is not an authorized dealer of Nikon or Cannon cameras. Which means any cameras you buy from them are grey market and not under warranty. I learned this the hard way as my year old Nikon D850 crapped out and because it is grey market Nikon will not even send parts for it to be repaired. I now own a $4000 brick and Abe’s did nothing besides point me to their website which they claim discloses this. It does not. DO NOT BUY FROM THEM
Directly from BBB of NY.
https://www.bbb.org/us/ny/brooklyn/profile/electronic-equipment-dealers/abes-camera-and-electronics-0121-1050
On May 22, 2007, this company’s membership in the Metropolitan New York BBB was revoked by our BBB’s Board of Directors due to the company’s repeated and unauthorized use of the BBB logo and failure to eliminate the underlying cause of complaints on file concerning: non-delivery of products, misrepresentation of availability of merchandise, refusal to honor cancellations or provide timely refunds, unprofessional conduct, failure to resolve customer complaints, overcharging, undisclosed cancellation of orders, improper upselling tactics, and bait & switch selling.
Location of This Business
1957 Coney Island Avenue, Brooklyn, NY 11223
Headquarters
1805 Lower Rd, Linden, NJ 07036-6590
I got a bait and switch deal too–upgraded the same camera to cost me 2499 when it was supposed to be 2000. The upgrade just said upgrade to full retail price. I called, they said no problem, we will take it back if you are not happy. I had the Postmaster open the package for me and resent it back. It has been a week now and no refund so I emailed and will call tomorrow during business hours.
These people are scam artists. It looks like I will have to fight to get a refund that was promised as soon as it was received back.